Reflow/Reball info

[HollyHallConsoles]

Nobody's telling you anything different.

EVERYONE is telling you 'your top TC has to be around 175-185 from preheating alone before the top heater kicks in'.

The frustration here is you're unable to work out what temperature that needs to be in relation to what you're setting the preheater to.

Nobody here knows what that should be but you as it's your kit and in your climate. We're all just trying to nudge you along the same track, getting you to try different temps. As I've said before, understanding WHY you're doing something is key.

So yes, Oggy is suggesting 340 and I said 350. The reply to you is "which of these temps (from cold) gave you the target temp you're after?? Due to the amount of testing you've been doing, you should know this already. You're making this SOOO much harder than it needs to be it's almost to point of disbelief.

calm down lol i was joking as i just put in my last post , i am geting there now i am crap with temps etc
just finished run at the start the top temp was room temp around 28 , it finished reading 171 top temp

---------- Post added at 20:39 ---------- Previous post was at 20:37 ----------

calm down lol i was joking as i just put in my last post , i am geting there now i am crap with temps etc
just finished run at the start the top temp was room temp around 28 , it finished reading 171 top temp

so the target temp i want to reach is around 175 , so am i right in saying i should try 355 now as i just hit 171 tops

---------- Post added at 20:41 ---------- Previous post was at 20:39 ----------

or should i run it again at 350 first just to make sure its the same temp 171 or around that

[Martin C]

Joking or not, it's concerning when the fundamental purpose of a BGA workstation is to use heat to reflow/lift BGA components and you don't seem to understand what temperatures you should be running at.

Your board needs to get to 180 before top heat kicks in. That's ALL you should need to know and should be able to work out the rest for yourself. Instead, we have pages and pages of the same advice over and over and it just feels like we're back at square one.

You know what you need to do, so what part are you having difficulty with?

[sick360mods]

Yes try 355 , if that dosnt get it then , 360.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[sick360mods]

It does seem as you don't get the machine. Or what people are saying. I don't even own one and now know close to how it operates bc of how many post have been said with u and multiple members. Shit if you were in the states I would buy it off of you.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[HollyHallConsoles]

Yes try 355 , if that dosnt get it then , 360.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

thanks budy i think i get the hang of it now il try 355 in a minute

---------- Post added at 21:04 ---------- Previous post was at 21:00 ----------

i know what you are saying guys when i look back and read it myself i can see that i am having trouble getting my head around it , i have just been trying to take short cuts or something or just not taking it in on how to set it up

---------- Post added at 21:07 ---------- Previous post was at 21:04 ----------

i can see your all getting pissed off now so i am going to go and try and sort it myself from now on
thanks for the help up to now

[Martin C]

The problem is you have a stack of boards there waiting for reballs. You're looking at them and dollar signs are coming up in your eyes.

Forget about fixing them. Unless you understand that 180 is the magic number that your top TC needs to read before step2 starts (aka your top heater starts to ramp up), it's not gonna happen.

FWIW I started with a T-8280 and an Aoyue hot air wand and was reballing consoles with this setup long before my ACHI. With that setup, you HAD to understand temps or you just killed everything!

[HollyHallConsoles]

The problem is you have a stack of boards there waiting for reballs. You're looking at them and dollar signs are coming up in your eyes.

Forget about fixing them. Unless you understand that 180 is the magic number that your top TC needs to read before step2 starts (aka your top heater starts to ramp up), it's not gonna happen.

FWIW I started with a T-8280 and an Aoyue hot air wand and was reballing consoles with this setup long before my ACHI. With that setup, you HAD to understand temps or you just killed everything!

i know what you are saying , i cant understand why i am a carpenter, i do plumbing [ fit my own central heating in , always done my own car repairs including engine rebuilds i repair pc s etc , but this this its just mind bogleing to me but i will get there in the end
thanks

---------- Post added at 21:18 ---------- Previous post was at 21:14 ----------

one last thing before i disapear would you advice me to keep the dwell at 900 now and get to the temp i need purely by adjusting the bottom temp till i hit 180 tops

[sp4rkst4rt3r]

The reason you came here to ask for help was because you couldn't do it on your own. Don't give up now or it will have been a massive waste of time. Everyone is trying to help you and they want you to succeed so for gods sake just stick with it and you'll be where you need to be in no time.
Sometimes we all have a little difficulty grasping the basics and rush in. Once we foook it up we then open the instruction manual and start all over again. Well in this case you haven't got an instruction manual you have got years of experience coming from some extremely knowledgeable peeps. Trust me this is much better than muddling through on your own or trying to learn Chinglish.
These guys have put a lot of time and effort into helping you. Don't throw it back in their faces by being butt hurt because of a couple of hurtfull comments (no offence guys) but you must take on board that these comments are made out of frustration.
Believe me we will all get together and have the mother of all parties once you get this machine set up correctly

[BGAMods]

tbh mate youre making it harder for yourself, rework is simple when you understand the basics. YOU MUST GET THE BOARD PREHEATED TO 175-180. You are the only person that can do this, keep running preheat cycles until you find a time and temp that consistently gets you into that range, without sorting the first part you shouldnt even be thinking about repairing any consoles. i killed 11 boards when i was setting my achi up.

[Oggy]

I drive a forklift and run a warehouse pick desk.

This is pretty much as alien to me as it gets. I too had help from Karl, Xmods, Geto, Amyno, Pure3D2 and even asked Martin for help recently.

It's a lot of money, and we all understand you want to have it repay itself asap, but if you don't learn the machine and what you're doing (and why you're doing it) - It'll cost you more in the long run.

[HollyHallConsoles]

The reason you came here to ask for help was because you couldn't do it on your own. Don't give up now or it will have been a massive waste of time. Everyone is trying to help you and they want you to succeed so for gods sake just stick with it and you'll be where you need to be in no time.
Sometimes we all have a little difficulty grasping the basics and rush in. Once we foook it up we then open the instruction manual and start all over again. Well in this case you haven't got an instruction manual you have got years of experience coming from some extremely knowledgeable peeps. Trust me this is much better than muddling through on your own or trying to learn Chinglish.
These guys have put a lot of time and effort into helping you. Don't throw it back in their faces by being butt hurt because of a couple of hurtfull comments (no offence guys) but you must take on board that these comments are made out of frustration.
Believe me we will all get together and have the mother of all parties once you get this machine set up correctly

sorry lads , i think i just took it the wrong way , i had problems when i first brought the machine i thought it was me but later found out there was a fault , so i had to start all over again because when i put the new pc410 on it run completely different i think thats what as got me so peeed off , and now made me think everytime i am told its me i refuse to believe it , but now i do believe its me now just being ignorant and not listening sorry again guys , i will get there i know i will
anyway i just ran 355 and got 181 tops , does my top temp have to be bang on 180 or can it be 181 or just under

[Martin C]

one last thing before i disapear would you advice me to keep the dwell at 900 now and get to the temp i need purely by adjusting the bottom temp till i hit 180 tops

ok - you're asking a question which you already know the answer to (honest).

Ask yourself this: "Why am I using a dwell of 15 mins (900 secs)?"

Answer: Because when running the machine, it takes 15 minutes for saturation to occur (the point where the board doesn't get that much hotter).

So, take this and you should be able to carry on.

[HollyHallConsoles]

tbh mate youre making it harder for yourself, rework is simple when you understand the basics. YOU MUST GET THE BOARD PREHEATED TO 175-180. You are the only person that can do this, keep running preheat cycles until you find a time and temp that consistently gets you into that range, without sorting the first part you shouldnt even be thinking about repairing any consoles. i killed 11 boards when i was setting my achi up.

didnt read that , ok thanks so i can take it upto 175 plus as long as its around that area

[Martin C]

does my top temp have to be bang on 180 or can it be 181 or just under

I'm sure you've seen myself and others say that 175-185 is fine for preheating lead-free packages.

Whatever you need to do in order to understand this better happen quick, as this is only for lead-free. Leaded preheat is about 140-150, so you'll need another number for that!

[HollyHallConsoles]

ok - you're asking a question which you already know the answer to (honest).

Ask yourself this: "Why am I using a dwell of 15 mins (900 secs)?"

Answer: Because when running the machine, it takes 15 minutes for saturation to occur (the point where the board doesn't get that much hotter).

So, take this and you should be able to carry on.

got ya , i know that on my machine it as to be like that now , but without sounding stupid why have i seen loads and loads of profiles with way way lower dwells then mine eg 180 / 200 / 240/ is that purely because of the room they are in etc

[Oggy]

Larger preheater on the SC IR Pro would be a start.

[HollyHallConsoles]

i recon i am going to get this sorted soon , when martin tells me something he seems to shout it at me and it sinks in better , i ay joking either keep it up mart it helps believe me

[Oggy]

Wait, we can shout at you?

Awesome!

[HollyHallConsoles]

I'm sure you've seen myself and others say that 175-185 is fine for preheating lead-free packages.

Whatever you need to do in order to understand this better happen quick, as this is only for lead-free. Leaded preheat is about 140-150, so you'll need another number for that!

i think i should be able to use 260 for preheating for leaded as it tops out at 140 plus

---------- Post added at 21:43 ---------- Previous post was at 21:43 ----------

Wait, we can shout at you?

Awesome!

yes mate lol it helps please shout

[Oggy]

Why didn't someone say that 87 pages ago? :P