backwards compatibility

prolific

Noob Account
Jun 12, 2004
6
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they said during the press conference that the most popular xbox1 games will be playable on xbox360 ...

you can bet that 007:AUF, Mechassault, and Splinter Cell won't be playable ;)
 

Rookio

VIP Member
Feb 15, 2005
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Sydney, Australia
Here's one for the Software guru's:

How do they make only some of the older games work on the new system? Have they been planning this for some time, and including in their game development over the past year(s) a feature that does or doesn't allow it play on the 360 console? And if that were the case, would the X360 chip or X4 chip or whatever it gets called...will it be able to hack it and make all games playable?
 

CoHPhasor

VIP Member
Apr 8, 2005
213
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I have a creaking feeling that they simply choose to make it so that they wont be burned for turning their back on the fans
 

DaN20

VIP Member
May 17, 2004
504
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Eugene, OR
The 360 would really drop down a notch if it's not fully backward-compatible. You can't just choose to emulate which games sold better, everyone has different tastes in games and it would piss off a lot of people.


---Dan
 

CoHPhasor

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Apr 8, 2005
213
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We don't exactly give giant amounts of brilliance kudos listed for M$ around here ya know ;-)

To be honest, it's cool that M$ has decided to look to what the modding community has done with their 4 year old technology, but it's time to be honest.

Looking towards what 360 is mimmicking we know that it already exists, including the fact that the media extender is an add-on for XB1.
Xbox Live is really what they're cointing on since it was so huge in the current gen, but let's be honest about that too, PS and Nintendo were STUPID for dragging ass on that aspect, but there is NO WAY they are about to keep they're eyes closed to that market anymore.

Wireless controllers = 3rd party has been making them
Wifi is going to be in ALL systems, but the other 2 have handheld systems that can connect to them! (PSP connectivity to 360 is still questionable at best)
System power, right now it looks like PS3 has the upper hand, and Nintendo is still on the drawing board.
If the 360 is supposed to be so connected why doesn't it have memory card slots like PS3 does for SD/Compact Flash/ Memory Stick? I have a PDA with Windows on it and WiFI, why shouldn't it be able to control my 360?? (ala PSP for PS3)

I also think it truly is a mistake to not have invested into another disc technology than DVD. PS3 is going Blu-Ray, (54GB in dual layer discs) and we have no idea on Nintendo yet, but there's a HUGE difference in the amount of content you can fit into 54GB than simply 10GB. Think about it, you can have movie games that HAVE the movie on them, OR you can have a "special edition" set that's all on one disc! (All 4 GTAs for example.)

If the release on the PS3 today is accurate, they're talking TWO Teraflops, versus the 360 @ 1 Teraflop, and add to that the PS3 has 2 different RAM types/ speeds, one for video, and one for processing versus the 360 has ONE type of RAM that is SHARED between video and processing, there's a SIZEABLE gap.
(Think about a PC, when I buy a PC I make SURE the video card has it's OWN RAM, why slow down the CPU?)

In all seriousness I thought that with all the data Microsoft has gathered over the years that they would know EXACTLY what makes a machine strong and weak, but I guess they either didn't pay attention, or they underestimated Sony by a longshot.
(Not to mention that Nintendo is keeping it so hush that they could pull off ANYTHING right now!)

Let's sit back and hope that 1, the titles coming for 360 before PS3 hits are strong enough to give it a good market share, 2 M$ is smart enough to offer FULL compatability, and 3 we find a way to hack the 360 and yet again make it our bitch. 8-D
 

EarlCrapstone

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2004
138
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Somewhere
I also think it truly is a mistake to not have invested into another disc technology than DVD. PS3 is going Blu-Ray, (54GB in dual layer discs) and we have no idea on Nintendo yet, but there's a HUGE difference in the amount of content you can fit into 54GB than simply 10GB. Think about it, you can have movie games that HAVE the movie on them, OR you can have a "special edition" set that's all on one disc! (All 4 GTAs for example.)
Think about that a little....if they had Blu-Ray drives along with everything else, it would drive the already too high price through the roof and into space. And if they we're including movies with the games, it would drive the game price way up too. And each Blu-Ray disc is not cheap. It's like having a hard drive on CD, just the cost of the material for each game would double the price.
 

CoHPhasor

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Apr 8, 2005
213
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EarlCrapstone said:
Think about that a little....if they had Blu-Ray drives along with everything else, it would drive the already too high price through the roof and into space. And if they we're including movies with the games, it would drive the game price way up too. And each Blu-Ray disc is not cheap. It's like having a hard drive on CD, just the cost of the material for each game would double the price.

I would like to point out that in a not-so-distant past a company called Sega put out a piece of hardware called the Dreamcast which used an older media that didn't support the coming wave of DVD, and not too long after a company called Sony put out a "PS2" that used DVD technology making it the cheapest way to watch DVD's AND it was a game system. (Serious 2-fer)

Not to mention, if Blu-Ray is that expensive it makes it harder to copy the games.

Think on this, if Blu-Ray makes it,
(Like Sony won't win this techno war on disc media now!)
there is no way you'll wanna shell out for a new home player, but if it's in your PS3 won't it be sweet?
 

CoHPhasor

VIP Member
Apr 8, 2005
213
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Well, as we ALREADY know, DVD's :p
 

CoHPhasor

VIP Member
Apr 8, 2005
213
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bwahahahha! check your PMs today?
 

quitifua6

Noob Account
Mar 23, 2004
3
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Crazy Stuff

Blah blah blah blah listen to this guy talking about Microsoft making a mistake to not have invested into another disc technology than DVD like Sony did, but how many people have Blue-Ray Media, that’s new technology that all is going to is drive the price through the roof. You know how it is; always new technology takes few years before really kicks in. Example: HDTV came available to consumers 1998 and still not everyone owns one. Don’t get me wrong Blue-Ray is phat that it can hold so much space
but how much you guys think PS3 is go to retail for with all this new technology like Blue-Ray and Progressive Scan 1080p, by the time a lot of people star owning TVs that support 1080p and Blue-Ray media Microsoft and MTV will advertising Next Xbox System. lol

Im Still buying both of them anyways. lol
 

linuxn00b2004

VIP Member
Oct 28, 2004
528
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Missouri
EarlCrapstone said:
Think about that a little....if they had Blu-Ray drives along with everything else, it would drive the already too high price through the roof and into space. And if they we're including movies with the games, it would drive the game price way up too. And each Blu-Ray disc is not cheap. It's like having a hard drive on CD, just the cost of the material for each game would double the price.
Well, the Blue-Ray drive just might increase the cost of the console, or it may not. Think about the XBox... Microsoft took a $100+ loss per unit sold. Perhaps Sony is prepared to take a loss as well. Besides, I doubt Microsoft will be making a lot of money per XBox 360: sure there is no Cell processor, but it's got 3 friggin' G5 processors... that's not cheap either. Both companies are probably willing to loose a fair amount of money on each console.

Both of the next-generation systems will cost more, no doubt about it. I'm sure they'll both be priced at around $350-400. These are not major money makers by themselves...

Going back the the Blue-Ray:
When and if this format becomes popular, by buying the PS3, you also eradicate the need to buy a second, "Blue-Ray Disk Player." So, any extra minor money you pay would be seriously offset by the cost of having to buy a whole second device for the purpose. I know somebody said that earlier in this thread... and I appolgize for repeating it. I'm just reinforcing. :)

You also said, "And each Blu-Ray disc is not cheap." Well... there are a few things that may prevent the difference from being as much as you believe it'll be.

Do you know how Blue-Ray works? Basically, it's just like any normal DVD or CD, but instead of a laser in the red spectrum, it's in the blue spectrum. The blue spectrum is at a higher frequency with less "amplitude", resulting in a "thinner" form of light. They are able to write more... cylinders... per disk. Physics, my friend. So, technically, they should be capable of using the same or a similar medium. Slight chemical changes might be nessicary, but that's really not too difficult for a chemical and electrical engineer. The only thing that would cost more is the burning process, because they would need to buy new burners. I don't see the cost of Blue-Ray being much more unless the realators of games decided to rape the consumers, and that is not Sony's fault.

[Note: if there are any experts on BD, then you are free to correct me on the paragraph above. I believe I am correct, but if y'all see any major mistakes on my part, then point them out. This is based on my average knowledge of Physics and Chemistry.]

Besides, even though it has a BR-drive, that doesn't mean for sure each game is going to be in BR format. If a game only takes up, say, 8 gigs, then they can use a standard DVD. Not all games will require it. So, not everything is going to be more expensive.

My 47 cents (I say that because I wrote more then 2 cents worth..;)).

- Greg
 

linuxn00b2004

VIP Member
Oct 28, 2004
528
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Missouri
quitifua6 said:
...
but how much you guys think PS3 is go to retail for with all this new technology like Blue-Ray and Progressive Scan 1080p, by the time a lot of people star owning TVs that support 1080p and Blue-Ray media Microsoft and MTV will advertising Next Xbox System. lol
...
That is unless you are using a computer monitor... which I think all of us own. I bet with the success of the VGA adaptor on the XBox and PS2, this will become an additional accessory one can by OEM.

- Greg
 

l0thar

Full Member
Apr 13, 2005
98
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Here's a great article about the possibility of backwards compatibility in the 360 (sorry to pull everyone back on topic :cool: ):

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]http://www.hardgeus.com/index.php?ndailyupdateid=604

I think M$ is trying to cover their arses by claiming that the "most popular" games will be playable on the 360. Those would include some of the first generation games (HALO for example) which still used the API. I wouldn't expect most of the games coming out now to be compatible (since they're most likely coded directly to the hardware) unless the development teams had backwards compatibility in mind. I'm sure you'll be able to play some Xbox1 games on the 360, but if your favorite game doesn't work M$ can just claim it wasn't "popular" enough.
[/font]
 

l0thar

Full Member
Apr 13, 2005
98
0
[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]
I would like to point out that in a not-so-distant past a company called Sega put out a piece of hardware called the Dreamcast which used an older media that didn't support the coming wave of DVD, and not too long after a company called Sony put out a "PS2" that used DVD technology making it the cheapest way to watch DVD's AND it was a game system. (Serious 2-fer)
I would also like to point out that in a not-so-distant past a company called Sony put out a video recording technology called "Betamax". Shortly thereafter JVC introduced VHS (a technologically inferior to Sony's)... and we all know what happened there. The PS3 will make a very big case for Blu-Ray over HD-DVD, but the real power is with the movie studios. Right now there's a pretty even spread between the two technologies, but if Blu-Ray fails... well, I think I'll go watch Labyrith on my Betamax... :cool:
[/font]
 

CoHPhasor

VIP Member
Apr 8, 2005
213
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l0thar said:
[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]

I would also like to point out that in a not-so-distant past a company called Sony put out a video recording technology called "Betamax". Shortly thereafter JVC introduced VHS (a technologically inferior to Sony's)... and we all know what happened there. The PS3 will make a very big case for Blu-Ray over HD-DVD, but the real power is with the movie studios. Right now there's a pretty even spread between the two technologies, but if Blu-Ray fails... well, I think I'll go watch Labyrith on my Betamax... :cool:
[/font]
Well my friend I believe it was Panasonic that pushed VHS into what it is today because pple like the idea of "backing things up" as we already know.

Sony seems to be a company who has learned from that mistake, and let's be honest, BETA never went away, you see any Pro's walking around with "Super VHS" cams on their shoulders?

Sony made a HUGE mistake when they came to the US with their product in such a demanding way, but now, now we have a different story.
Sony itself is a movie studio, and their balls swing low.
At this point you have to realize that MS isn't even making a case for HD-DVD wither, so no matter what they're pulling a dodo! If on the other hand M$ took the HD-DVD they could at least help Sony's opposition win the battle, but wtf are they gonna do against 54GB huh??
Take a look at how many otaku-style losers can play for weeks on end in Final Fantasy, so what happens when Sony can put out an FF that is 3x longer than MS, or have 10x the amount of unlockable movie features?

I think that as such a wonderful "entertainment machine" the 360 should be able to support at least ONE of the new formats, but now if I go only 360 I have to go out an get a player in the next 3 years or something like that, give me a break.
(Couldn't talk my wife into being that stupid.)
 

Rookio

VIP Member
Feb 15, 2005
3,804
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Sydney, Australia
CoHPhasor said:
(Couldn't talk my wife into being that stupid.)
Nobody wants to cross a woman... let alone one you sleep next to!


Firstly, Let's just say im not what you'd call a specs whiz. If it runs properly, sweet. If it doesn't I'll try to fix it. Most of the time i can. But... I don't know what your progresive scan 1080p is and i don't understand your talk about teraflops and ram speeds...

Everyone here knows that technology is leaping ahead so damn quickly. Who here has the latest PC available? I'll bet nobody (unless your just a rich mutha ######)
So why does it matter if you get the latest technology in your new console? You'll get that technology in your next one right? and by then it will be out of date again, but thats life...that's also why the price comes down.

Cophasor i hope you don't take it the wrong way, coz I like your style bud. You know that. In my most humble oppinion it doesn't matter at all what kind of specs these machines have, as long as the game developers can keep making better games for us. Which they always have... and i'm tipping they always will!

Theres my 1 cents worth ( its an oppinion not worth as much as fact :) )
 

CoHPhasor

VIP Member
Apr 8, 2005
213
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No offense taken Rook, you know that ;)

The problem I'm running into when thinking about the whole deal is; 1 Bein' sold down the river by M$ as a real gamer vs being some all-round techno freak that needs another VCR. (I mean wtf would I need a 360 for when I HAVE an Xbox that does media??)
2. I think that taking this stance just seriously LIMITS the box's potential, and that COULD mess up the type of games they put out.
(Why put out semi-obsolete sh*t in the first place, they ain't Nintendo and they don't have that kinda fanbase!)

3. Why am I gonna carry such a HEAVY price-tag when something is sooo much obviously inferior?
Unless for some reason NOONE can handle making games for PS3 well enough it won't be real competition.

(Especially when I ain't buying "Virtual Girl's skatepark", and for those who haven't seen the M$ E3 conference, you dunno what I'm saying)