Seagate Chosen as 360 Harddrive Provider

Menkey

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AZAZ3L

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Apr 4, 2005
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I have an original seagate in my 1.4 and its running perfectly, and my 250gig works great too, all HDD companies have about the same failure rate.
 

Martin C

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AZAZ3L said:
all HDD companies have about the same failure rate.
I really beg to differ - when I was running my own business, I collected a STACK of faulty HDDs all from the same manufacturer. I won't mention brands etc, but I will say this: There are a few HDD manufacturers whom I've never had problems with, and some I always had problems with.

Any unnatural faults were due to customer error and not directly linked to the HDD failing on it's own.

Martin
 

watto

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Martin C said:
...I collected a STACK of faulty HDDs all from the same manufacturer...
I agree...I work in a company with about 900 PC systems, and there are piles and piles from the same makers, no piles from others. Let me take a guess...

Seagate - large pile
Fujitsu - large pile (esp. all the recall units)
Quantum - large pile

Western Digital - only a couple of bad ones over years
Maxtor - only a couple of bad ones over years

How's that?!?! I admit I was depressed when I saw Seagate is supplying for the X360...
 

Martin C

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watto said:
I agree...I work in a company with about 900 PC systems, and there are piles and piles from the same makers, no piles from others. Let me take a guess...

Seagate - large pile
Fujitsu - large pile (esp. all the recall units)
Quantum - large pile

Western Digital - only a couple of bad ones over years
Maxtor - only a couple of bad ones over years

How's that?!?! I admit I was depressed when I saw Seagate is supplying for the X360...
ROFL - yes, my largest stack (20+ drives) were Fujitsu and all from a certain manufacturer of PC. (*cough* tiny *cough*). I had great fun smashing them up...

Martin
 

rh387

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Either my couch or my chair.
i was so pissed off when my fujitsu died, but all 3 of my WD drives still work.
 

Catalyst

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I work in IT as well and I feel your guys pain about the Seagates.


I just had my Western Digital 120g USB HDD crash on Saturday...

It had all my game back-ups and my music, movies and family video's on it!

I think it is the USB device though... I hear that you can crack it open and run the HDD because it's just an IDE in there... I've haven't tired yet though...

You can daisy chain USB Drives so I'll try that first.

But I was shocked when it broke! Western Digital are the best IMO... the most expensive usually but the most reliable too!

Martin, you had to smash the old drives? I had to do that when I first joined the military!

It can be a pretty good time.:D We had a huge sledge hamemr and the trick was to lay it on it's side and hit it hard enough to crack it into two pieces! If you did it right you could make the disks fly out!
 

Martin C

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Whenever I disposed of media, I either microwaved it (CDs etc) or smashed it to prevent access. The HDDs were fun as you can dismantle them and get the uber-powerful magnet out of them. Did a couple recently and really ideal for magnetizing (or demagnetizing) screwdrivers etc.

Most USB HDDs are IDE inside - it's worth opening it up to see exactly what.

Martin
 

Catalyst

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Martin C said:
Whenever I disposed of media, I either microwaved it (CDs etc) or smashed it to prevent access. The HDDs were fun as you can dismantle them and get the uber-powerful magnet out of them. Did a couple recently and really ideal for magnetizing (or demagnetizing) screwdrivers etc.

Most USB HDDs are IDE inside - it's worth opening it up to see exactly what.

Martin
Yeah, I'll prolly open it this weekend.

I'll post my findings...

Those magnets sure are fun though... keep them away from your PC!!! :eek:
 

AZAZ3L

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I must be chosing the right model then, and I take care of my pc and xbox so lucky me.
 

Martin C

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I wish it was as easy as taking care of the equipment.

Pretty dumb statement however, since how you 'take care' of something doesn't make a blind bit of difference if it's doomed to fail anyway.

I'm pretty sure that the majority of my ex-customers looked after their hardware too - still didn't stop their crappy HDDs from failing...

Martin
 

AZAZ3L

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Martin C said:
I wish it was as easy as taking care of the equipment.

Pretty dumb statement however, since how you 'take care' of something doesn't make a blind bit of difference if it's doomed to fail anyway.

I'm pretty sure that the majority of my ex-customers looked after their hardware too - still didn't stop their crappy HDDs from failing...

Martin
I like to read.
http://faq.storagereview.com/tiki-index.php?page=BrandMostReliable
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/perf/qual/spec-c.html

I guess my products just cheating their destiny of failure, and what certification do you have that makes you the Ultimate Judge on what product is "Doomed to fail".

I will however give you that maybe the model you dealt with during your scientific experiment as an IT, was somewhat a faulty model and I believe that all Manufacturers have a model that is not there best, I usually do some reasearch and buy a higher end HDD, and also my Barracuda has 60 mo's warranty, and the 2 other comparable HDD made by WD and Maxtor only give 36 mo's, I wonder why they dont have better faith in their product, Makes ya think.
 

Martin C

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AZAZ3L said:
what certification do you have that makes you the Ultimate Judge on what product is "Doomed to fail".
Maybe read my post again as you've gotten it wrong.

I don't judge anything. If you buy a product which is going to fail earlier than expected, then it will. Doesn't matter how you treat it. Ever bought a lightbulb which has blown sooner than expected?

HDDs are better now and most certainly in the high-end market. Personally I let the evidence speak for itself - MS are NOT going to ship a high-end HDD with the Xbox 360 (as this is what the topic is about), which makes a lot of your reply void.

The first link you posted is merely the opinion of one person - the second just breaks down factors which decide a HDD lifespan and reliability. Websites are written by anyone and everyone - you really don't need any qualifications to post one.

See, whilst I like to read, I've actually been doing this for a fair while. My first computer experience was working on IBM XTs where the HDD was MFM/RLL - a massive 10MB of storage space (which was huge since the 360k 5.25" floppys were the only removable media in operation).

Martin
 

AZAZ3L

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This entire thread except for the first post is about opinion, I am trying to state mine without offending anyone, and the links are just like you said opinions, and I used them to back my way of viewing juding HDD's up, which is besides raw scientific data is all you can do with a subject like this, and I didnt read your posts wrong, I am dissagreeing with you on the fact that Seagates are not doomed to fail which you implied in your quote about your v1.0 v1.1 xboxs, and it doesnt matter how long you have been doing this, experience doesnt affect whether something is factual or not, just cause you have been in computers 20yrs doesnt mean everything you say is true, not trying to offend you, I just dont like the "I have been in this business forever so I'm right" card pulled.

We can go in circles about this forever, I like seagates, they have been reliable for me and people I know, I think Xbox 360 drive will be decent I dont expect a flawless drive when there trying to keep price down, I will keep buying them, and endorsing them untill I find a better drive for my needs.
 

Martin C

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AZAZ3L said:
I used them to back my way of viewing juding HDD's up
But the point is that you referred to these sites as a way to 'prove' what you were saying: To counter any other opinions.

AZAZ3L said:
and I didnt read your posts wrong, I am dissagreeing with you on the fact that Seagates are not doomed to fail
Yes you did and still are. My point was simply if something is going to fail, then regardless of what you do with it, it will still fail. Again, you chose to argue that your hardware has never failed because of the TLC you give it, which is entirely untrue - whilst you can say that you've potentially 'extended' the lifespan, no amount of TLC would save a piece of hardware if it was doomed to fail. Again, I use an example - The many Xbox users with Thomson DVD-ROMs can't *ALL* be responsible for the faults? According to you, they are.


AZAZ3L said:
and it doesnt matter how long you have been doing this, experience doesnt affect whether something is factual or not, just cause you have been in computers 20yrs doesnt mean everything you say is true, not trying to offend you, I just dont like the "I have been in this business forever so I'm right" card pulled.
I never said anything of the sort. My reasoning comes from experience. Years of experience with computer hardware. Yours comes from reading a few websites. Furthermore, the attitude of "I'm right so everyone else is wrong" you seem to display in each post is getting tiresome.

Martin
 

l0thar

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AZAZ3L said:
I am dissagreeing with you on the fact that Seagates are not doomed to fail which you implied in your quote about your v1.0 v1.1 xboxs, and it doesnt matter how long you have been doing this, experience doesnt affect whether something is factual or not
I hate to add to the debate, but IMHO although experience of this type may not concretely determine whether something is undeniable truth, it certainly does help discover disappointing trends. An analysis of the data presented by at least two individuals who work in IT (both Martin and Watto; Catalyst also mentioned problems) show a very disappointing trend in Seagates.

The real questions you should be asking are: what was the percentage of Seagate hard drives in the original population, and was the sample random? If all hard drive failure rates are equal and a company uses a higher percentage of Seagate drives, then the number of failing Seagate drives is going to logically be higher. Randomization is important because many times in large IT companies, large orders are filled by suppliers with sequentially produced machines that contain hard drives supplied from the same production batch. If the batch is faulty then a higher number of those hard drives will fail. This was the case where I work; we had a bad batch of WD hard drives in supplied machines a few months ago. Between March and April, out of about 3000 machines we had almost 200 hard drives fail and the majority of them were WD's. The majority of these failed drives were from machines that were ordered and filled in the same general time period. Since we haven't had other major problems with WD's it is safe to assume it was just a hiccup in the production cycle of that batch. Statistics... more than just batting averages! :cool:

A real determining factor is how long these trends have been noticed. The longer the samples have been taken the more realistic the observation. Therefore, if someone has been working in IT for a long period of time they have most likely been monitoring the trends for a longer period of time and have a more realistic view of overall production quality. Experience does make a big difference in this area!
 
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AZAZ3L

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Just like me, I suppose you are taking my posts wrong, I dont think I came off as saying anybody is wrong, If I did correct me, I was merely debating that SEAGATE drives in general are not doomed to fail due to your experiences no matter how long those may be because the data is limited, when I posted "I like to read", I wanted to show a point of view other than my own, it in no way supports my claim that SEAGATES are a better drive, just shows an option on how to view HDD reliability, and just because I posted "I like to read" does not mean my experience is limited as such, that again is a false conclusion to make about me, I am 23 and I have been dealing with electronics since I was about 7 in one way or another, I do take others experience into account otherwise why would I post questions about problems, If I thought my attitude is "I'm right so everyone else is wrong"?

Also I said "I must be choosing the right model then, and I take care of my pc" that right there is a neutral post, I didnt say they generally do or do not fail, it just states I have been lucky in my experiences, all harddrives are doomed to fail, so your statement is a given, so then you would have to say SEAGATES are doomed to fail faster than other HDD's, so I am saying if you take better care of a HDD it will last longer.

I think the reason this debate is lasting longer then it should is because for me atleast I'm seeing your posts as absolute saying "Seagates are doomed to fail or not doomed is an absolute statement" if you or me say they will fail faster than other HDD's then I dont think we would be where we are now, also me saying that experience does make something true is just that no matter what experience someone has it cannot change the outcome if something is a fact or not, I should of stated that it does however mean that your statements are more likely to be correct than those with lesser experience, again I said that because you used terms that meant absolute, I did the same as well and I will correct myself.

I enjoy debating very much, im not a yes man martin, your not either, so I am trying to approach this at a neutral standpoint I will fail at that sometimes, however my posts may come across. I am not trying to offend someone outright, I love banter and trash talk, I have been made aware that trash talk is taken seriously here, so I try to tone it down, I am very open to diff point of views and opinions, you can say I get upset when someone, not just you, everybody, online or not, says something along the lines of "this is the way it is and always will be".

I am not taking the bitch way out and saying that I appreciate yours and others posts, I truly do, even if I think someone might be wrong, it gives me more info to draw a conclusion from.

Oh yeah very good post lothar, you dont have to have to worry about adding to a debate or post no matter how old or long it is, or even if the problem has been solved, just like you said the longer an experiment goes on the less of a chance it is random or inconclusive, the more input the better I say.

I'm tired and losing my train of thought, so I'll wrap this up for tonight.