X3 and Static Discharge

[Casper1786]

just an X3 Board? u mean 'JUST' the chip as in no Pinheader, no wire harness, no switches, no nothing but the purple lil Chip with the X3 Logo on it? or maybe u want some stuff on that board like the chips and other items(f**k if i remember what anything is called). 2 sad 2 say you need 2 order a whole new 1, as all chips are packed with those items by Team Xecuter, so unless they're willing 2 sell direct 2 a Civilian, doubt your gonna catch a deal, hell I bet som1 will buy 1 and sell u just the chip at a $5 discount without the Wires, Pinheader, Sickypads, switches, D0/HDD/LAN wire and LPC Rebuild PCB, but u could try ressurecting your current 'Fried' 1, have u looked into hot swapping them? could be somthin there who knows, u may get lucky

 

[tonylott]

Here is my conclusion. I was running my X3 primary BIOS when the static discharge occurred and I believe it fried my primary BIOS.

Your conclusion is, as others have indicated on this thread, incorrect. There is no way that the amount of static you build up in your body could fry that chip via the plastic power switch...Metal interior or not. No way, not ever - unless, as previously stated, you are Mr Lightning (Then you wont have any xbox left, never mind X3).

If static discharge was the problem then it would have occured when the lid was off your box and you were mooching around your X3.

This post is not intended to rag you but to assure others that this cannot happen.

Little tip: Before touching ANY part of your mobo or chip, put on rubber soled shoes (Trainers (UK) Sneakers (USA)) and then touch a bare eathing point, such as unpainted part of the copper piping that routes the heating around your house. This will bring your body to the same potential and the rubber soles will help prevent bodily static build up.

 

[SchOX]

ESD is a funny thing. I say that its HIGLY unlikely that you have destroyed your X3 with ESD with the case closed, but it's not impossible as there is a wire from power btn to X3.
The amount of static charge needed to discharge a airgap this "huge" is very high! you must have been sitting on a syntetic chair rubbing ballons on your head for an hour, and also drag your feet across your syntetic carpet on your way to the xbox and also have a "broken" telly witch charge you up even further, and then have the worst luck ever (like shooting a revolver straight up, and the bullet hitting you on the way down)...

 

[umpa]

Liquid_Zer0

It was not static thro pressing the button - period.

Glad you got it going,

I really thought you were taking the piss with this post tho

 

[Computertrendy]

"but it's not impossible as there is a wire from power btn to X3. "

Wow. Is this the only guy who has figured this out? What is the power switch connected to? The X3 adapter for the power and eject switches; which is directly connected to the chip. If memory chips can be charged with as little power as low watt 5 volts, what is any wattage of 10,000 volts gonna do? Doesn't anyone agree that this makes sense?

Liquid Zero, I believe you. Plus, this has happened before. I've seen it. Anyone can feel free to do a thread search through this forum and find it/them. At least one have lost their X3 to static.

 

[Liquid_Zer0]

"but it's not impossible as there is a wire from power btn to X3. "

Wow. Is this the only guy who has figured this out? What is the power switch connected to? The X3 adapter for the power and eject switches; which is directly connected to the chip. If memory chips can be charged with as little power as low watt 5 volts, what is any wattage of 10,000 volts gonna do? Doesn't anyone agree that this makes sense?

Liquid Zero, I believe you. Plus, this has happened before. I've seen it. Anyone can feel free to do a thread search through this forum and find it/them. At least one have lost their X3 to static.

Thanks for your support. I realize that no person on this forum knows me personally but the people that do know that I do not make up stories just to get attention. It may not mean much to anyone else but I am no idiot when it comes to electronics. I also am no engineer but I had training with electronics (about 2 years worth). I have modded HAM radios, CBs, and now an XBOX and I have had success with all of them. Thanks for your support.

 

[tonylott]

Computertrendy wrote:
"but it's not impossible as there is a wire from power btn to X3. "

Wow. Is this the only guy who has figured this out? What is the power switch connected to? The X3 adapter for the power and eject switches; which is directly connected to the chip. If memory chips can be charged with as little power as low watt 5 volts, what is any wattage of 10,000 volts gonna do? Doesn't anyone agree that this makes sense?

Liquid Zero, I believe you. Plus, this has happened before. I've seen it. Anyone can feel free to do a thread search through this forum and find it/them. At least one have lost their X3 to static.


Thanks for your support. I realize that no person on this forum knows me personally but the people that do know that I do not make up stories just to get attention. It may not mean much to anyone else but I am no idiot when it comes to electronics. I also am no engineer but I had training with electronics (about 2 years worth). I have modded HAM radios, CBs, and now an XBOX and I have had success with all of them. Thanks for your support.

OK then, gloves off. Pin your ears back and standby for broadcast... Firstly Liquid_Zero nobody said you were lying....Just mistaken... Secondly if you are electronics trained then you should know about this sh*t and realise that it is bollox. Plastic switches with plastic surrounds do not conduct the sorts of static generated in the human body....

Computertrendy....what the f**k are you on about "what is any wattage of 10,000 volts gonna do". Why are you wittering on about watts? Right, the voltage does not mean a toss, it is the ampage or current that means the difference between happiness and sadness!

You could have 250,000V with no current and it would not harm you. you could have 1V and 1 amp and it could very well kill you.

I believe you. Plus, this has happened before. I've seen it. Anyone can feel free to do a thread search through this forum and find it/them. At least one have lost their X3 to static.

Anyone who has caused damage to their chip or xbox through static has caused it when the lid off and they are touching the delicate parts. Basically, it is the only way.... These things are designed to prevent such things...it also stops dodgy wigglyamps coming out of the box and electrocuting it's owner.... Though perhaps Team x could find a way of by-passing this safety measure in the new bios. It may be of benefit to the general public in some cases!!

Merry X3mas

 

[umpa]

Very well said sir.

 

[SchOX]

Computertrendy....what the f**k are you on about "what is any wattage of 10,000 volts gonna do". Why are you wittering on about watts? Right, the voltage does not mean a toss, it is the ampage or current that means the difference between happiness and sadness!

You could have 250,000V with no current and it would not harm you. you could have 1V and 1 amp and it could very well kill you.

You ar right, it wouldent harm YOU, but it's the high voltage/low current that kill semiconductors... (he did not say that he died, he said that the chip died)

And you are right about plastic not being conductive (so are not air either) but at a given voltage, you vill get a discharge through ANYTHING.
If he fealt a static discharge while touching the powerbutton (witch is plastic, as the case is too) where did that discharge go?

In ESD protective cases (for shipping electronics) there is different classes, and one of the criteria for determening the class is the physical distance from the outside of the casing to the sensitive equipment, why do you think it is so?

Another thing, the telly charges the inside of the tube with high voltage (>20kV) to boost the speed of the electrons) some tellys have high lekage of this static tension...

But you are right it still is HIGLY unlikely that it died throug this.

Another thing, someone said that the powebutton would lead the discharge to ground, but that is simply bullocs, as the XBOX does not HAVE ground, it is impossible to discharge anything there... (check the powercord, and if you find any ground there, let me know).
The relative potensial of 0V and anything else is insignificant to the static tension/discharge.

 

[tonylott]

Faraday stated that the charge on a charged conductor resided only on its exterior, and had no influence on anything enclosed within it. To demonstrate this fact he built a room coated with metal foil, and allowed high-voltage discharges from an electrostatic generator to strike the outside of the room. He used an electroscope to show that there was no excess electric charge on the inside of the room's walls.

Michael Faraday 1836...

This is why your xbox doesn't need an earth and why Liquid_zero was mistaken. the Xbox gubbins are, in effect, encased in a Faraday's Cage.

HOWEVER!

An electrostatic discharge (ESD) is a sudden flow of electric current through a material that is normally an insulator. A large potential difference across the insulator generates a strong electric field, converting the material's atoms into ions that conduct a current.

The best known example of ESD is a lightning strike. In this case the insulator that breaks down is air, the potential difference between cloud and ground can be millions of volts, and the resulting current that flows heats the air causing an explosive release of energy.

I accept that, under certain circumstances, i.e LIGHTNING, things can go wrong. Can we leave it now please!

 

[Erebus]

Ok explain this to me then.....I copied this post here cause it seems this is where the action is.....pay attention to the part where I said I was watching the X3 external switch at the moment of ESD.....
original post is....

Ok so I am apparently in the same boat Liquid_Zero....
I modded and flashed (to 1234) my 1.6 XBox with a X3 with LPC rebuild(no wire installs here) and a 200 gig HD a couple of weeks ago. Put everything back together, case on, worked just perfectly, played games, X3 is enabled, used X3 Config, Evox, etc....just perfect.

So 2 days ago I raise my ass up off the couch after re coloring my flubber and such, walk over to the XBox, and press the power button to turn it off AND SHOCK THE HOLY HELL OUT OF MYSELF.....ON THE POWER BUTTON, (or power/eject button panel if you wanna get technical)....I felt the shock (which hurt like hell btw) BETWEEN the panel and the button itself...

I just happened to be looking at the X3s external switch, and the instant I felt the shock the X went from BLUE(enabled) to RED(disabled). It hasn't booted right since, will NOT boot with chip enabled(blue), WILL boot with chip disabled(red), and WILL boot to backup(purple). I get FlashBios screen but I get the same message "Flash type: Read Only". I have the same bios disc (DVD) that I originally flashed with and worked, but no matter what bank (1024k or over) I try to flash to I get "Unknown Flash/Halted".
Yeah I hear you all out there just scrambling to tell me that "your flash protection is on dude!" Only problem is I am a reasonably intelligent person who can tell the difference between a switch in the on or off position, and BOTH the X3's and the external switch's Flash Protection switches are OFF....one more time.....OFF..... still won't flash....
I currently have the XBox pulled apart and inspected it earlier....no obvious componets burned, no trace damage or broken solder that I can see(and I spent over an hour with a bright light lookin real close).....
I would appreciate any real attempts at advice or help from anyone who might know something. I made this post long in order to explain in the most detail every aspect of my problem. Thank you.

And yes if the static charge is powerful enough, and the airspace between me and the conductive contact point( PROBABLY NOT THE PLASTIC BUTTON BUT THE POWER/EJECT BOARD BUTTON JUST BEHIND IT!!! which coincidentally is hooked through the small switchboard DIRECTLY to the X3) is small enough the charge will ARC....just to head off the people who cry "plastic can't conduct". ESD either affected the X3 chip itself or the X3's power/eject control board.

 

[DAREALDEXY]

Hi just reading this post and well even plastic holds a static charge i know this coz i worked in an arcade for 10 years and have had several shocks from static plastic chairs. Several times i have static shocked a game board only to find when i switch it on it either does not work or the grathics is fookerd well i find if i leave it off for around an hour it comes back to life again (note some of these boards cost 5,000 pounds) also machine would be unpluged whilst waiting. Also have u all noticed that the xbox has no earth so if u or even possible the xbox has static where can it go????????
Hope this helps

also u may have just fookerd ur flash chip

 

[Erebus]

That is what I'm saying, the X3 chip has been screwed by the ESD.....XBox works fine if I boot with chip disabled, but the "CHIP DOESN'T WORK"......
My question(s) are:
Is there a way to save and reflash this chip?
Will I have to shell out ANOTHER $60 because the chip wasn't designed with some kind of static protection?
I know that Liquid replaced his chip with another and it works just fine......
Mainly just an answer to the first one.

 

[Harlech]

Love the argument, and I have jacked an X3 from static discharge around the power button.

 

[Xecuter]

this is so dumb its not even funny.

the circuit to the power button has zero to do with this. its so amazingly dumb to even suggest it.

trust me - just drop it cus whoever is suggesting it is making them selves look a little low in the IQ dept.

 

[tonylott]

Erebus wrote:

Will I have to shell out ANOTHER $60 because the chip wasn't designed with some kind of static protection?

:lol: That is class! All PCB designers TAKE NOTE!

Erebus, my old fruit. Take a trip to the library or search the net for the laws relating to electricity.

Amps - Are not only for use with electric guitars
Joules - Are not found in necklaces
Watt - Is not another word for pardon
Volt - Is not just somewhere to stash money
Current - Is not just a dried fruit
Static - Is not only standing still

Sorry ...Couldn't resist it.

 

[DAREALDEXY]

please note about static electricity=When you scuff your shoes upon a rug on a dry winter day, your body typically charges up to a potential of several thousand volts with respect to ground.
In physics this is a well-known fact and is easily verified by meter measurements.
Touch a grounded object, and a spark will leap between the object and your fingertip.
This kind of electric spark can only exist when a high voltage is present. The tiniest spark requires about 500 volts. Big, nasty, painful sparks require lots more voltage, up to several thousand volts. But even when no sparks are jumping, there is still a high voltage between your charged body and the ground, and you body is surrounded with an invisible electric field.

 

[Erebus]

Are you kidding?
It's real easy, I know what I saw, and I know what happened.
The fact that more than one person has apparently had the exact same problem, with the same circumstances somehow makes it a legitimate problem.

Xecutor this thread my be dumb, (and I agree) but the fact still remains that I (and some other people I guess) have had a ESD prob with the chip during normal operations(i.e. case on). I'm not an electrical engineer(never claimed to be) but I do know that I SHOCKED THE BOX WHEN I HIT THE POWER BUTTON AND THE CHIP CRAPPED OUT.
How many more ways can I explain the same thing?
......will......not.......boot enabled........will........not..........reflash any bank........
read Liquid's post, read my original post they seem to be along the same lines.
As for "there is no way that could happen" that we are getting from people on this forum, I'm here to tell you, IT DID!!!!!!
I don't know how it happened I just know it did......
Install is perfect, chip was working perfectly UNTIL ESD.......

Explain that to me Xecutor please I just bought the friggin thing.....
I'll send the chip to whomever you want, I don't care.
I already shelled out $30 for a 2.3 and $60 for the X3, I want the X3 to work again but I'd rather not drop another $60 for another chip, (which is what Liquid did) if it can be fixed.

 

[Xecuter]

im not saying your mod didnt crap out. im TELLING you it wasnt from ESD.

If you find its faulty and there is no physical damage just send it back - which is what most normal customers of any kind of product would do.

 

[ayerstech]

JTAG

Hi,
The best thing you could do is to put every HDD in your original hdd case and it will be shown as original MS hdd.