X3IR and MS dongle single IR eye

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alexmsqpr

Noob Account
Dec 27, 2004
7
0
England
Hi,

I know it is possible with the XERC 2 to use it's eye for the MS dongle (when installing the dongle internally) (see http://wiki-scene.com/wiki/index.php?title=Xbox_Hardwired_DVD_Dongle). I would rather buy the X3IR but was wondering if it is possible to do this with it. I'm pretty sure it would be but could do with confirmation it works and some info on what you need to attach the dongle to on the X3IR from some thats done it or team xecuter before I go for the x3ir over the xerc2.

Thanks..
 
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shygrouch

Noob Account
Apr 5, 2006
3
0
I pretty much followed the tutorial that alexmsqpr mentioned above to install the MS-DVD dongle.... at the bottom of the tutorial, it shows how to use 1 eye for both.
Looking at the X3IR eye from the front, (the wires coming out of the left side), I wired the 1N4004 diode to the bottom right leg of the eye.
 
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R_E_G_N

Noob Account
May 27, 2006
3
0
Hi!

I have tried to hardwire my dongle with a relay and use the x3ir's eye for both the x3ir and the dongle. As previous post stated I solded the bottom right leg of the x3ir to the diode and then to the bottom pin of the 3 pins of the dongle as stated in the guide. But it won't work! I tested to solder the original ir-eye back to the dongle to see if it was the dongle or the relay that was corrupt. But then it worked flawlessly. So it must be it's something wrong with the connection between the x3ir and the dongle. And yes, the diode is in the position the guide stated, as I understand that it should be? Any help would be appreciated.
 
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Big_Whoopin

VIP Member
Jan 29, 2004
811
0
SE Pennsylvania, USA
That's sorta the topic here... the linked wiki (correct link - http://wiki-scene.com/wiki/index.php?title=Xbox_Hardwired_DVD_Dongle) has directions at the bottom of the page, "Dongle Alternatives" part B. Replace "XERC" with "X3IR." The one challenge is making sure you link the two units together with the correct leg of the IR eye. Supposedly we know the leg (posted above) but R_E_G_N said he had problems with it. IIRC all diodes are polarized devices so you need to make sure it is wired the correct way. This may be the problem above.

I've got this slated as a future project for my Xbox, I'll try and get pics when I do it. No idea when I'll have time tho.

-Whoopin'
 
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R_E_G_N

Noob Account
May 27, 2006
3
0
I have been working on my xbox this weekend using twistedsymphony's tips to use either a NPN- or a PNP-transistor to get my internal dongle to use my X3IR's eye. After several tries I got it to work, finally! The combination that work for me was to use the PNP-transistor and wire the base to the X3IR, the emitter to the dongle and then wire the collector to ground. Of the 3 points left on the dongle after hardwiring I used the upper point to solder the ground and the lower to solder the signal (I didn't use the one in the middle, 5V, that's left empty). I then wired a cable from the base of the transistor to one of the legs of my X3IR. Quoting from shygrouch:
"Looking at the X3IR eye from the front, (the wires coming out of the left side), I wired the 1N4004 diode to the bottom right leg of the eye."
So his wiring was right, but I had to use the transistor instead of a diode.
When looking at different tutorials about the dvd-dongle I have discovered that there seems to exist different revisions of the dongle. So this may perhaps not work with everyone. If that's the case, try with both a PNP- and a NPN-transistor and test with wiring the collector to either ground or 5V.
The only problem I have now is that I sometimes have to plug my controller into port 4 and then unplug it to get my remote to work when booting the xbox. But this has something to do with the relay, could be that I used a 12V-relay instead of a 5V-relay.
Hope this can help somebody, sorry for not putting up any pictures, I didn't have access to my camera when working with the xbox.:)
 
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Big_Whoopin

VIP Member
Jan 29, 2004
811
0
SE Pennsylvania, USA
R_E_G_N, first of all thanks for the follow up and great work! Now, check me if I'm accurate with the attached "schematic," see if I've translated your post correctly.

My assumption would have been that the link between the eye and the dongle should have been using the contact that the white wire connects to. Without tearing my box open to get to the X3IR eye I don't know if the lower right point is the same as this. Comparing this setup to the setup of the XERC in the wiki, the XERC appears to only have a 3 pin eye. If the 3 pins normally used on the X3IR equate to the 3 pins on the XERC, I would think that using the lower right point is the wrong one. Again, need to take a closer look at the eye, which I can't do right now.

Gonna stretch on this next one, as I've got some experience with electronics but not much... where the X3IR uses a 4 pin IR eye as opposed to the 3 pin unit on the MS dongle, I'm wondering if the extra pin is another signal pin. (suspecting the top right goes across the board to the black wire and ground.) If this is another signal pin, wouldn't it make sense for the IR designers to have one signal be the inverse of the other? I.e., one signal is in an on state while the other is off, and if the eye receives a signal it switches the state of each? I think this would explain why you needed to use a PNP transistor to possibly reverse the signal. I've had to do similar in an LED mod I'm working on.

For reference, I've also attached an image of my deconstructed MS DVD Dongle. As you can make out on the circuit board this is revision B. Rotate it 90 degrees clockwise to line up with the dongle image in the schematic. Following the traces (and the layout of the IR eye pins) this appears to match both the setup of the dongle in the wiki and what you have described... top pin ground and bottom pin signal.

-Whoopin'
 
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Big_Whoopin

VIP Member
Jan 29, 2004
811
0
SE Pennsylvania, USA
Oh yeah, were there any specific specs or tolerances for that PNP transistor?

-Whoopin'
 
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R_E_G_N

Noob Account
May 27, 2006
3
0
Yes, the "schematic" is correct, that's how I wired it. But I had a somewhat different dongle, mine didn't have a big chip at the bottom. Guessing it was revision A, but I don't know. I can't recall that I saw something on the dongle to show which revision it was.
As for the transistor, I used a standard transistor, if there is such a thing. Don't know that much about electronics (had help from someone that do). :)
 
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Big_Whoopin

VIP Member
Jan 29, 2004
811
0
SE Pennsylvania, USA
Ok, it looks like in this setup that transistor actually acts as an amplifier of the signal. (I too am tapping someone for their electronics expertise.) Maybe this amplification is required on the rev A board? I've started gathering the parts for my go at this and will also be doing some investigation into what roles the different contacts on the IR eye play.

-Whoopin'
 
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Big_Whoopin

VIP Member
Jan 29, 2004
811
0
SE Pennsylvania, USA
Ok, got around to trying this on my Xbox with the "revision B" dongle that I have. I found that mine worked fine using the diode only as described in the wiki page. Not sure what the difference is between R_E_G_N's hardware and mine but this worked without issue.

Also, instead of using the solder pad on the IR eye board I traced it back to the main interface board and tapped in there. This enabled me to have less wires running from the front panel into the box. I found that the "lower right" pad one the IR eye board does not connect to the white wire as I had earlier suspected, it instead connects to the red wire. (I think the two pads on the wire side of the board go to the black wire, the top "away" pad to the white wire and the lower "away" pad to the red wire.) On the main interface board I found this wire has at least three points on the board available. First is right on the connector where the wire plugs in, second is on the primary chip on the board and the third is on the unused connector. I suspect this additional connector was put in place for a possible later project from Team Xecuter that would provide an interface wire from this plug that could then be attached to a DVD dongle. I soldered to the point on the extra connector and then ran this to the diode I added on the DVD dongle. All other connections were wired as described in the wiki except that the pinout of my 5v relay was slightly different than the main image.

The points on the IR interface board are considerably small. I consider my soldering skills to be above average (not going to make a living doing it, but I can work on small areas) and would not recommend these points to people with very little soldering experience.

I have attached an image of the IR interface board and marked the points that I believe all tied in to the red wire. I am not 100% certain at this time that I have the right areas (fairly certain, but couldn't confirm since the board is mounted back in the Xbox again) so use a multimeter to confirm the continuity on the points before soldering.

-Whoopin'
 
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Big_Whoopin

VIP Member
Jan 29, 2004
811
0
SE Pennsylvania, USA
If there is anyone looking for the components for this project, the place where I got my parts was a company out of NJ called Futurlec. (www.futurlec.com) Here are the part numbers-
JRC-23F-05 - SPDT 5V 1A PCB Relay - $0.60 ea - Order Page - Data Page
1N4004 - General Purpose Diode - $0.20 for 10 - Order Page - Data Page

And if you want to pick up transistors as well-
2N4126 - PNP General Purpose Transistor - $0.15 ea - Order Page - Data Page
I'm not sure on what NPN transistor to use, but 2N4123 or 2N4124 would probably be fine.

If you are not familiar with relays, on these particular units there are 3 pairs of pins across the bottom. The pair that is off on it's own would be considered the "input" here. These two pins are connected together (doesn't matter which one you solder to) and then get switched between the pins on the opposite end of the relay. Of this switched pair on the other end, one pin is normally closed (continuity with the input pins) and the other pin is normally open (no connection to the input pins). When power is applied to the middle pair of pins (a magnetic coil in larger mechanical relays, not sure if it is the same here) the position of the switch changes. In this new state the pin that had been closed is now open and vice versa. Looking at the pinout of the relay (represented with the pins pointing to you) on the above linked Data Page, the top left pin is what would be soldered to the green wire input on the DVD Dongle, the lower left pin would be soldered to the green wire input on the controller port and either (or both if you want) of the pins on the right hand side would be soldered to the green wire coming from the motherboard. For the middle pair it doesn't matter which goes to the red wire and which goes to the port shell, just make sure the diode is mounted correctly.

This is a neat project that I would recommend anyone with the X3IR mod and a DVD Dongle look into. I'm really pleased with the results.

-Whoopin'
 
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markw21

Noob Account
Aug 20, 2006
9
0
Can I also ask will this work with the dongle that comes with the 'xbox media centre extender' Is this the same as the DVD dongle quoted.

Many thanks

Mark
 
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markw21

Noob Account
Aug 20, 2006
9
0
This seems to be different as it doe not mention the 'Dongle Alternatives'.

Can someone please post a link so I can see the full schematic of how to wire the X3IR and the internal DVD dongle.

Many thanks

Mark
 
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