I put a deposit for my xbox 360 today at gamestop. I was told the it would be $350 with only one version comeing out, also he said it appeared that the first shipment would be in the first half of sept.
Xbox 360
- Thread starter barto15
- Start date
Hi freaks...
I'm happy to read ur extrapolations on the new 360 box.
As i knowed it will be released on november and as i saw the first pictures, i couldn't stop to mean about a chip on it...
That was a PIII, now it's like a great p4, and at the price it will pobably start (~300$), if any other operating system could once run on it, it turns me really happy...
Exploits are ever done once, and soldering on a motherbord is ever possible...
See u and just all hope the same loudly, surrely it will happend...
Rico
I'm happy to read ur extrapolations on the new 360 box.
As i knowed it will be released on november and as i saw the first pictures, i couldn't stop to mean about a chip on it...
That was a PIII, now it's like a great p4, and at the price it will pobably start (~300$), if any other operating system could once run on it, it turns me really happy...
Exploits are ever done once, and soldering on a motherbord is ever possible...
See u and just all hope the same loudly, surrely it will happend...
Rico
tehsoul said:
The xbox is just a PC, with a well known design. We can mod it because we know what it is. I mean, you can run linux on it, and using WINE you can run windows. In fact, the kernel of the XBOX is just a stripped down windows 2000. This new system is totally fresh, and although we know it's using a specially designed multi-core powerpc chip, that doesn't tell us much about the rest of the hardware design. I'm talking about design on a much more technical level than either you or I understand, things like placement of various logic boards, where important and vulnerable traces and contact points are run (aka putting them through the middle levels of the pcb so we can't patch into em), and other things that I don't even know about.
The xbox 360 is an entirely new design. Now, yes, linux can probably run on it, if m$ were to tell everyone exactly what program calls their specific hardware are looking for and the like. Sony just came up with a new filesystem, which is akin to a very complex computerish Ceaser cypher. But if ANYONE here has modded an xbox, which I *HAVE* 4 or 5 times, you know that things like the LPC ports were only there to facilitate testing, and M$ didn't think people would be soldering things into there. The original homebrew (29) wire chips were insane, and that was just due to the design, not any sort of anti-modding stance. The LPC wouldn't be there if they had thought about it too much. Why?
MICROSOFT LOSES MONEY WITH EACH XBOX SOLD. This is important to remember. The reason they do this is so they get their percentage of each game. Although I don't advocate piracy, I'm willing to bet that most 13 year old fanboys get their xboxes modded in order to pirate games, not turn an expensive toy into a low-powered and limited computer running a marginally popular operating system. in other words:
*IT IS IN MICROSOFT'S INTEREST TO MAKE THE XBOX UNMODDABLE*
The only reason you can go on xbox live with a modded xbox is because they didn't think to put something in the original bios that would check for a larger hard drive, or a new partition, or a strange "XBMC.xbe" file. Or even a giant folder with tons of pirated games on it! One simple thing, and you have to go to great lengths (hard drive switching, I suppose) to make a modded box work on XBOX live. They could have (and it's odd that they don't) started using a sealing resin over the LPC ports that would be hard/impossible to scratch off, and make all our lives that much more difficult. They could make the lpc holes farther apart, even, although that means redesigning the PCB (which is very expensive). The fact that they don't do this is because it's somewhat of a lost cause. If they try too hard, I'll admit they may antagonize a distinct part of their market, but I figure they just said XBOX1 is a write-off (they'd have to retool and redesign their manufacturing plants), "we'll get it right with the 360."
By NOT exposing contact points within the system, by doing more in software than the stupid and easily discovered fake bios thing the system does when it loads (if you don't know what I'm talking about, you cannot argue with me on a technical level. If you don't know how the XBOX bios originally was discovered, then you MUST go read up before I'll get into a flamewar with some under-educated enthusiast). If they leave the test points off the system, and find some other way of doing quality control, then I bet the scores of hardware and software postdocs they've got working on this little project will probably be able to outdo what the loosely knit and half-organized open source committee would be able to break, at least within the kind of timeframe we'd hope for (before the xbox 4 comes out).
restating: Microsoft has lost tons of money on the XBOX. I know some of you don't think this is true, but they have NOT made money. They have for a quarter or two, but overall they're WAY in the red. Therefore, they do not want to lose more money, even though it IS microsoft and they're not too worried about that. Modding an xbox gives it a very high chance of it being used for piracy, AKA lack of commissions on games sold. Therefore they need to stop it. For the other modding reasons, its usually to take their system and force it to do something they didn't want it to do (linux). Even from a non-economic standpoint, they don't want to support linux, right? And they'll probably make it as hard to run linux on the new box as they can, right? I mean, at least take it into consideration? And even if you "only use your xbox for xbmc," you still are probably using an illegal bios, running a free program that competes in a way with another microsoft product (media center extender for xbox).
Therefore, they can easily design the unit from the ground up, so that even if we know how all the parts work together, it would still take years to figure out kernel patches and drivers for each little design change. Especially without the reference documents. Any engineer will tell you, trying to do something like this in a neutral environment (as the xbox 1 nearly is) is very difficult, but in an actively hostile situation it's... daunting. Have you ever tried to read someone else's uncommented code without knowing what the program does? It's real, real hard. And that's when they're not actively trying to keep you from figuring out what they're doing. Now we've got software AND hardware, and I'll say it again: it's got to be even more difficult that I imagine it being.
Now, don't get me wrong, that's not to say I want it to be un moddable. My Xbox is much, much cooler than most of my friend's, and I love what I can do with it. I'm amazed at what the various teams have been able to accomplish, because it's a real feat. Between my modded xbox, firefox, and openoffice, I've come to really respect the open source scene and it's accomplishments, but you I still know the very real technical challenges that exist, and will continue to exist no matter how hard I hope they will just go away. If you've got an intelligent response, then please: Give me some hope.
Holy crap. I wish i had your free time.joeyelp said:
I do however agree. It's only common knowledge of business. Microsoft did state that they are producing the original xboxes at a loss. The whole xbox idea is nothing more than a step in Bill Gates, i can't remember what he called it exactly, whole living room experience. The xbox 360 is just the next step. Remember this because you'll be thinking it later: the xbox 360 is going to start with the gamer and then change focus. The ability to play games will become a secondary benefit.
It is going to be ten fold harder for the hacker community to make a chip to give any additional functionality to the 360 because it won't be 90% hardware and 10% software (or whatever balance you see with hardware being the greater obsticle). It's going to be a balance of hacking the hardware and software while avoiding detection online. They can't make a chip that goes undetectable online right now, it's going to be even harder with the 360.
Wonderful point KidIc. I think the main selling point of the 360 is going to be the online experience it will give (they have hinted at a lot but seem to be certain that it will change how we look at online gaming/communities). I'm sure the 360 will eventually be moddable, but I'm also sure M$ is going to use many more security measures to detect modding and then promptly ban your box from their online goodness. I believe that the real dilemma will be whether or not modding your 360 will be worth getting banned from the online service and all that it will provide. If people decided not to mod their boxes, M$ wins. If they decide to mod and get banned, M$ wins a small victory by having a (potentially) wonderful online system that the modders can't access. If modders decide to purchase a box to mod and one to keep pristine, M$ wins by making them purchase the hardware twice. It all depends of if they can pull of the online side of the 360. If they do then I believe that modders will have some hard decisions to make in the near future.KidIcarus said:
Man, I really hate XBox Live... I hope that not using it doesn't take too much away from gameplay...
I also hope to gawd it will be moddable...
M$ is a huge target... nerds everywhere will be killing themselves trying to crack that nut. God bless you, you lonley virgins!!
I also hope to gawd it will be moddable...
M$ is a huge target... nerds everywhere will be killing themselves trying to crack that nut. God bless you, you lonley virgins!!
They can't make a chip that goes undetectable online right now, it's going to be even harder with the 360.[/QUOTE]
just disconnect your network cable. or im sure there will be a way not to connect to xbl and still be able to ftp, ect.
just disconnect your network cable. or im sure there will be a way not to connect to xbl and still be able to ftp, ect.
First of all think of why your modding an xbox, to xpand its function, to steal games, or just something to do? Well xbox 360 has quite a bit of features, most of the games should be worth buying if not rent them, if you need a hobby then find one, but dont bitch that there trying to mod proof there product they dont make money from modders, 99% of people who buy an xbox arent doing it so they can buy it, there just normal people who want to play halo, since I was worried about being banned from xbox live which i spend about 90% of my time doing I bought a xbox just for it, and my modded box is my hobby. Learn economix and youll understand why microsoft does almost anything.
My oppinion is close to catalysts, i couldn't give a flying monkey about Xbox Live! I was given my first xbox and it had 2 games Halo and Amped. I played those a bit then did pretty much nothing with the xbox, until i found about the modding scene. Now I have xbox parts all over my house, I have 2 working xbox's and more often than not a couple of ones that are in various states of repair.
I guess what i'm trying to say is that if the 360 is not moddable I won't really be interested in it. Sure ill probably eventually buy one and play a game now and then, but it will have lost the majority of it's appeal.
I guess what i'm trying to say is that if the 360 is not moddable I won't really be interested in it. Sure ill probably eventually buy one and play a game now and then, but it will have lost the majority of it's appeal.
In response to joeyyelpper, who designs the hardware and software? For all intents and purposes-hackers. Yes, I am just an environmental engineer (making the world safe=)) But, my brother is a mech-engineer and he doesn't see the problem. What happens to the d**kweeds that write the mean and nasty super viruses that cause so much trouble. They get bought one way or the other. They write code, they design software and we use it at a later date. Wether it is exemption from jail time or government force (M$) they get bought. They are a valuable resource and they just embrace the "good" side of the force instead of the sith, forceably or not. The un-caught ones are on our side.
Now, anything that has been designed can be undesigned,time allowing, wether it is the process for using Mercury resistant bacteria to absorb Hg in contaminated soil or simply, ragweed planted over the site after it has been tilled, it can be "resolved". The only thing with this is -noone cares. Here-in lies the 360. Many knowledeable people care about hacking the 360. Noone cares how to clean up a CERCLA site except those monitarily responsible. The Knowledge of those on the outside of M$ is vastly superior to those on the inside. The only problem is resources and organization. If M$ could buy minds like Team executer and smartx, Avalaunch, Team Assembly etc. they might try, but it seems profitability and sheer enjoyment of beating the giant disallow this. In the mean time I will place my bets with these guys to crack the 360 and Ive heard it's about done (source sorta reliable even though 360 is not out yet.) In the mean time I will continue to clean up the messes caused by manufacturing the damn things, though I guess not ,since nothing is made in the states anymore and who cares if the Chinese have high levels of mutagenic and teratogenic causing chemicals in their water!
Now, anything that has been designed can be undesigned,time allowing, wether it is the process for using Mercury resistant bacteria to absorb Hg in contaminated soil or simply, ragweed planted over the site after it has been tilled, it can be "resolved". The only thing with this is -noone cares. Here-in lies the 360. Many knowledeable people care about hacking the 360. Noone cares how to clean up a CERCLA site except those monitarily responsible. The Knowledge of those on the outside of M$ is vastly superior to those on the inside. The only problem is resources and organization. If M$ could buy minds like Team executer and smartx, Avalaunch, Team Assembly etc. they might try, but it seems profitability and sheer enjoyment of beating the giant disallow this. In the mean time I will place my bets with these guys to crack the 360 and Ive heard it's about done (source sorta reliable even though 360 is not out yet.) In the mean time I will continue to clean up the messes caused by manufacturing the damn things, though I guess not ,since nothing is made in the states anymore and who cares if the Chinese have high levels of mutagenic and teratogenic causing chemicals in their water!
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Posted by joeyelp: They could make the lpc holes farther apart..
Then you would just use the wire install.
Then you would just use the wire install.
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i think it will turn out like the psp...something so tightly enginnerd was thought to be unbreakable...but now we are playing all the classic games out there...playing umd rips...and are in the early stages of a ps1 emu and more! all within months of inital us release.
even if it never gets cracked, ill still pick one up...looks to be quite a box!
even if it never gets cracked, ill still pick one up...looks to be quite a box!